Jeff Cranson: 0:07

Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast. I'm Jeff Cranson. Today I'll be talking with an old friend in the Transportation Communications business, Shane Peck, who is a Vice President of Communications and Public Involvement for WSP International Consultant and he was part of some major research with some co-authors that really took a look at how to best explain what transportation agencies do. It was really designed for state DOTs to better connect with the public and understand public perceptions about what transportation means, what mobility means, understanding that it means different things to different people. But broad body of research he presented on a conference of our peers around the country recently and so I thought it'd be nice to talk to him about this and kind of break down some of the findings, which are very interesting. So, Shane, thanks for taking time to be here.

Shane Peck: 1:16

Absolutely, Jeff. Thank you so much for having me on. It's a real honor to be able to talk to you today.

Jeff Cranson: 1:21

Well, let's start with how you came to the kind of the five pillars I guess that you looked at and the evidence-based themes that determine what you decided most resonated with the public on each of those themes.

Shane Peck: 1:38

Sure, you know, it's my background. I was with state DOT. I was Communications Director there and spent a total of 17 years in state government and about 12 years with state DOT. I grew up in Missouri, so that's where I was with the state DOT, but then, once I was on board with WSP, we've done several different research projects over the years. So over the years so it goes well back before this current research that was completed in at the very end of last year in December 2022. So we've seen a lot of the same themes and we're able to kind of verify what we found out in this research through hearing kind of similar things over the years.

Shane Peck: 2:24

And what we did in this round was we used some online focus groups specifically they're called Bright Boards, and that allowed people from all over the country. We recruited from every region of the country. We made sure that the breakdown of the folks that were participating included folks in urban areas, suburban areas and rural areas. So we make sure we're getting those rural folks even though it's an online engagement that we were able to get those folks involved as well, and then that had aligned with the overall breakdown of people throughout the United States. So all the various incomes and ethnic groups and everything that lined up with census data to make sure we're getting a true cross section of folks. And they could come online over a three day period. We asked them to come on every day over the three days, but at a time that was convenient for them. That would alert a moderator who could also interact with them, but it was pretty much a self guided thing so that they could look at videos that were put together and some still images that had text overlaid on those images that could be appropriate for, like what you might see on a social media site like Facebook, they could look at those and tell us how they responded to the various things that were being communicated about transportation. And so, as a result of that, we came to some conclusions about how we can better talk to people about transportation.

Shane Peck: 3:56

As you know, Jeff, as a communication director for DOT and through your many years of experience, folks are focused on a lot of different things, and transportation is pretty far down the list, even though it's vitally important to people. Every day, you're thinking about your own job, you're thinking about getting your kid to school, you're thinking about buying groceries, or going to healthcare, all those kind of things, and so if you're getting where you need to go, you're not really thinking about transportation and in a lot of ways, that's ultimately where we're trying to get as an industry in transportation. But we do want to make sure that people are aware of the broader benefits, and so what we've seen over the years is like what I just mentioned. The kind of bottom line that people think about with transportation is can I get where I need to go? So that's still a key thing to be aware of and to communicate with the public is that if we improve transportation, it means that you can get where you need to go quickly and easily and, of course, safely.

Shane Peck: 5:01

But people feel pretty good about the safety of the actual transportation systems. They worry a little bit more about their safety when it comes to the other folks that are driving whether they're worried about distracted drivers or folks that may be impaired and they're a little more worried about in case of transit you know about crime or you know getting to and from the transit stops, more so than they're worried about the actual safety of the trains themselves and the system. They're pretty, pretty happy with safety. So, really people are focused on as long as I can get where I need to go without any major inconveniences and get there. You know, I make sure I can get to my job on time and the things that could affect me or emergency services are able to get to me quickly without any delays if I need them, then that's kind of the bottom line of what people are thinking about.

Jeff Cranson: 5:56

Yeah, I've come to agree with you completely about what people think of in terms of their own driving versus other people's driving, and this has become very clear in the last several years as we've talked so much in Michigan about automated vehicles and what the future holds. And if you talk to people they'll say that but I'm a really good driver. You know I must be better than the computer, but nobody else is so. Yeah, so I think you hit on something else that I think about a lot, and that's that we do take transportation for granted, even though it's the one, that's the one facet of government that truly touches our lives, from the minute we leave our house until we get home every day. But I like the way you phrase that, that if people are taking it for granted, then that's probably a good thing, right?

Shane Peck: 6:45

Yeah, certainly, and so that's part of the challenge too is we're trying to get to that point of people really aren't thinking about transportation because they just assume they're going to be able to get where they need to go, whether it's getting in their car or using a transit vehicle or, you know, getting on the bus, or if it's disabled folks or other folks with special needs that those are available to them as well, and they are just kind of expecting that and not thinking about it. Unfortunately, when people aren't thinking about it, then sometimes first of all, maybe they don't see the need for why we need to invest more in transportation going forward, but also they don't necessarily think about how there's broader benefits to transportation beyond just being able to get where you need to go. So that's also part of what we looked at in this research.

Jeff Cranson: 7:37

So let's break down those, those themes, and take them one at a time. Equity, obviously huge, something that his, properly you know, risen as a priority at transportation agencies and really in all units of government and much of private industry in recent years. So talk a little bit about your findings there.

Shane Peck: 8:02

Yeah, certainly, and I always preface this, too by saying this has always been a priority for state departments of transportation, equity and what we also call environmental justice, to make sure that everyone has equal opportunity to participate in transportation decision making, as far as, like if we're building a new interstate or we're thinking about transit and how to make that better available to people, that we're listening to everyone across. You know all all ethnicities, income groups, every part of you know a state or you know every part of the geography where we're looking at that particular thing. But, as you mentioned, there have been things that have happened over the past few years that brought this even more into into light and even more into focus, and so we did look at equity as a concept to a greater extent than maybe it has been looked at in previous research, and we we found that there's a feeling that transportation is for everyone and transportation that works for everyone improves all of our lives and people. That really resonates with people across. You know, frankly, the entire political spectrum or kind of wherever you are, whatever you're thinking is, is feeling that it's for everyone, is for me and it's for everyone else and it's important to everyone, and so that really resonates and I think that is a great message to to get out there that transportation, we rely on it.

Shane Peck: 9:34

Even if you never leave your house, you still rely on transportation and nobody never leaves their house, or almost nobody. You still rely on it to get food to the grocery stores you shop at. Nowadays we get so many things shipped to us at home. We need to get all those things and we've seen that over the recent years where the supply chain and freight movement and everything has been a challenge there and we feel those effects. So, transportation is for everyone and it's important to everyone, even if you don't get in a car every day or you don't get on a transit system.

Jeff Cranson: 10:08

Yeah, imagine our kids not remembering a time when anything that you wanted was a click away and showed up at your doorstep. Right, we'll be right back. Stay tuned.

Shane Peck: 10:23

Hey, did you see that sign on the side of the road? What about those workers? Are you even paying attention to how you're driving? Workzone awareness takes all of us.

Jeff Cranson: 10:37

Yeah, so let's talk about, about mobility, which you listed as one of the themes, and that kind of is all encompassing, but you do have some specifics on that too.

Shane Peck: 10:49

Sure, as equity is kind of risen and as a theme that really resonates with with folks out there, as I mentioned, mobility has kind of always been the theme over the past 10 to 20 years, as we've been looking at these, at these kind of things and trying to kind of hone in on.

Shane Peck: 11:10

You know, what are the the key aspects of transportation to the public, and and Mobility is a word that I don't know that a lot of people in the public use, but they certainly agree with the concept. So it's also important that we're not just saying Transportation improves your mobility, because people don't necessarily think in those terms. Transportation helps you get where you need to go is really what what people are are thinking about or, as we mentioned before, not thinking about. Hopefully, in most cases they aren't thinking about it, they're just able to use the transportation system and get where they need to go. But, as I mentioned, that also applies to emergency services and the things that they have delivered to their homes and and other aspects of the transportation system that are also important to make sure those they have access to all of those things.

Jeff Cranson: 12:04

So yeah, I guess this one seems like again it goes into the broader umbrella of mobility, but it was a separate theme you explored and that was easier commutes. That's probably the thing that people expect the most and the thing that people get most frustrated about when it's not the predictable time that they expected. So talk about your findings there.

Shane Peck: 12:31

Right, you're correct that it kind of goes in that mobility section too, but it's more specific in that thing is one of the first things that comes to mind for people when they are thinking about can I get where I need to go?

Shane Peck: 12:43

Is our commutes to and from work, which of course we've also seen some changes in that in the past few years of there's a little more work from home, maybe if fewer people going in, but still that commute can be stressful. And that was the word we kind of honed in on there is that people see commutes as being stressful and so whatever can be done to limit that stressfulness is important to people and easier commutes kind of in that same vein, is easier means I'm not stressed out about whether I'm going to get to work on time. I'm not stressed out because I'm being delayed and that's just generally annoying to me that I'm standing here waiting for the bus or I'm sitting in traffic, whatever that might be. So that was kind of it shouldn't be a new thing to us, but that were less stressful. Or stress certainly resonates with people when we talk about transportation. So kind of the key theme there is, you know, more reliable transportation.

Jeff Cranson: 13:51

More reliable transportation makes your commute less stressful and that's why I feel so strongly about the DMS boards being as up to date as possible with information about crashes or, you know, any work, any road work that might slow you down I think that, while people aren't happy to find out that something that usually takes them 20 minutes is going to take 40, at least telling them does something. It's like when you're sitting on the tarmac and you're not getting any communication from the cockpit right and you're just frustrated because you don't know what's going on.

Shane Peck: 14:26

That's a great point. I think that's a lot of the logic behind. Even if there's not an incident, the board's telling you how long it's going to take you to get downtown or wherever it is that you're going. It's allowing people to know that and, again, kind of reducing that stressfulness giving them, letting them know what to expect.

Jeff Cranson: 14:47

Yeah, I take comfort in knowing that what is supposed to take 16 minutes will take 16 minutes.

Shane Peck: 14:53

Yeah, and it's amazing how accurate that is.

Jeff Cranson: 14:56

Oh, it really is, I know I agree. The next one, which dovetails with that previous one, is time and that idea that you know any time you're delayed is time lost from doing other things, which also goes to quality of life.

Shane Peck: 15:12

Absolutely. Time spent sitting in traffic is time away from the important things of life is kind of the theme that we honed in on that one. Again, it plays into stressfulness and it plays into mobility of you know. If I feel like I'm wasting time or I'm being delayed, then that's stressful and it's limiting my ability to get where I need to go.

Shane Peck: 15:38

And again, time plays a huge role in, you know, our job security making sure that we are getting to work on time and getting to the other places we need to go on time. And it also is something that we also don't necessarily think about. But certainly if you're stuck in traffic and your child has a ballgame that you want to get to but you're not able to get there on time because you're in traffic or the bus you normally take is delayed or the train has, you know, is delayed for some reason, then you certainly are thinking about that. It's like. So the more that you can get where you need to go, the more you're going to be able to do all those things that makes life worth living and the things you want to be doing.

Jeff Cranson: 16:28

And lastly, of those key five is jobs, and you and I have talked about this in the past and it's a component of what we talk about with the projects being done in Michigan, especially with Governor Whitmer's $3.5 billion rebuilding Michigan program. Talk about how you assess those jobs, those you know indirect, largely indirect jobs that are supported by transportation, and you know your ideas about how to put a face on those jobs.

Shane Peck: 17:06

Yeah, that is the challenge, particularly for those of us like you who've worked in the transportation industry for a long time. We've talked a lot about how particularly investing in transportation and transportation projects help improve economic development, economic situations and create jobs. It's not surprising that most people in the public, if you mentioned jobs related to transportation or road building and things like that, they think of those workers that they see out on the project. Certainly, that's an element of it. Those folks' jobs are supported by work on the projects that state, dots and federal government and other local entities have invested in to make it easier for people to get where they need to go. But also part of the benefit of that is there are jobs for people that are working directly on those projects.

Shane Peck: 18:05

What folks don't necessarily think of and again, that's not necessarily what they should be thinking of, but what we would like them to remember is that there are jobs that are supported beyond just those folks working on those projects. First of all, the people working on those projects. They are going to restaurants and spending money, they're buying things in stores, they maybe, in some cases, are staying in hotels. So there is an investment in the community that comes from those workers, but there's also an investment in the community that comes from that project. Transportation improvements a lot of times are vital to new businesses opening or new major employers coming into the area, which are going to mean hundreds or thousands of jobs for that community. And that's a big part of, I think, connecting it to people is this means jobs locally in your community, and that's really kind of the message that we arrived at investing in transportation creates more jobs in your community. So those are local jobs for local folks, not just the people that are working on those projects.

Jeff Cranson: 19:16

So how do you think this is valuable? I mean, obviously we know it's valuable to anybody in the industry, especially those of us who are charged with communicating with the public and media and lawmakers about what we do and how we do it, why we do it, all those things. But beyond that, I mean I think obviously we face a huge challenge here in Michigan Many states do you live in Illinois right now, which has passed some major revenue packages in recent years and is doing pretty well with in terms of cash flow right now and projects on the streets. Michigan has suffered for decades from an inability of policymakers to agree on a sustainable solution. So we're constantly trying to remind people about that and this underpins your research, kind of underpins those necessities and hopefully could play into that funding messaging. Could you talk about that and how you think it can be helpful?

Shane Peck: 20:26

Sure, and I think part of this is what is encouraging too, is that you know state government, state departments, transportation and this was research done through. You know federal funding. So at the federal level too, they want to hear what the public has to say. They want to know what, what are the aspects of transportation that are important to the public, and so if we know what those things are and we can more effectively communicate with members of the public and you know people in the communities and key stakeholders then ultimately we can invest more in transportation, hopefully, and make the communities better and make our transportation system better overall. You know there are other aspects to this.

Shane Peck: 21:19

I always mention, as we talk about this research and other similar research is that context matters. So it's also important for agencies, cities, counties, state DOT's, the federal government, to look at their organizations and you know what's your level of. You know the trust you've built with folks that you are going to be going to for additional funding potentially in the future. What accountability mechanisms are you going to build into these funding packages to let people know? And this is a very important part of the research that we've done and what we've heard from people is people want to know specifically what projects you're going to do, what transportation improvements you're going to do, where those are going to be, and how can they track those once they get started and, you know, hold these agencies accountable for actually delivering on those projects as promised. So those are important things to keep in mind as well, but ultimately it's all about Transportation is for everyone. That's one of the key messages for equity, and so if we can invest more in transportation, that will benefit everyone.

Jeff Cranson: 22:34

Yeah, and I think that dashboards, like what what we use here in Michigan and other agencies use can be, can be very helpful. Of course, they're only as good as the number of people you know finding them and looking at them, but I absolutely agree with you about accountability and showing people progress and explaining why. If something isn't on time, you know what's the reason for that, and being as transparent as possible is really important to that credibility. Is there anything else you want to say to sum up your research and I know that in you know 20, 25 minutes we can't begin to cover it all because it was a lot, but I'm glad we were able to talk about the, the key themes.

Shane Peck: 23:13

Yeah, me too, and you did a great job kind of guiding me to make sure we hit all those key themes. If anybody would like to see the full research that we did, it is available. I created a bitly link, so it's bit. ly transportation qualityof life. They can go to that. They can see the full research where it really does a deep dive into it and you can see very specifically how people reacted to the various videos and other things we put out there and what it is that they really liked about them and there were some things they didn't like about it. So it's pretty interesting folks in the transportation industry. I think it's particularly valuable for them, but just about anybody out there I think would find some value in taking a look at that.

Jeff Cranson: 23:57

Yeah, that's very helpful and I'll also link to it in the show notes. So thank you again, Shane. I enjoyed this and hopefully this won't be your your last appearance on the podcast.

Shane Peck: 24:09

Oh, hopefully not. I absolutely appreciate the opportunity and would love to come back anytime you want to have me.

Jeff Cranson: 24:15

I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation. You can find show notes and more on Apple podcasts or Buzzsprout. I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast of various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.